tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post8335828534877276540..comments2024-02-17T09:53:06.168+00:00Comments on Notes from the Slushpile: How to Take a Critique on the ChinCandy Gourlayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-82060624218159604862011-06-26T20:46:10.408+01:002011-06-26T20:46:10.408+01:00Nicely put. I find myself assessing critique comme...Nicely put. I find myself assessing critique comments not by whether they are 'good' or 'bad', but how specific they are. Specific comments are so much more impersonal than the general (eg. 'I like this' or 'I don't like this'). Comments like 'I wasn't sure what you meant by....' or 'I love the image conjured up by....' really help to do some precision editing. And yes, it's so important to stay schtum and really listen. Write the comments down and nod encouragingly while feedback is given. After all, how lucky are we to have friends who believe in us enough to give their time. <br /><br />Every time you read something that's really bad you just know that the author hasn't had - or made use of - the privilege of feedback.<br /><br />Plenty of filling in that critique sandwich!Claudia Myatthttp://www.claudiamyatt.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-25264146542812240742011-06-23T11:26:44.435+01:002011-06-23T11:26:44.435+01:00Defending your work IS so tempting, isn't it? ...Defending your work IS so tempting, isn't it? And yet you've gone along to a critique session presumably to get critique. It's like feeling the ned to defend your friends and family even when you know full well they're wrong!<br /><br />And yes, your'e right Candy - the discussion that comes out of a critique session can be amazing - I love that part of critique groups.Jo Wytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01941417444551495613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-39139133215495160632011-06-23T10:57:31.767+01:002011-06-23T10:57:31.767+01:00Not talking helps improve hearing/listening skills...Not talking helps improve hearing/listening skills. If you succumb to the temptation to defend your work, you might miss the signals.Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-3150189645920609172011-06-23T10:42:13.319+01:002011-06-23T10:42:13.319+01:00Candy, we have that luxury as authors, don't w...Candy, we have that luxury as authors, don't we? That's certainly why my current work-in-progress is taking so long and I'm guessing that's true for yours, too.<br /><br />Jo's right about the not talking thing. Because it was me that was doing most of the talking!Nick Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571077124165351007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-12356910496951410792011-06-22T19:58:27.970+01:002011-06-22T19:58:27.970+01:00I think the Pixar template is the reason why they ...I think the Pixar template is the reason why they make such great movies. They really take time to get the story right - if only book publishers had that luxury!<br /><br />re not speaking - unless spoken to, of course - the questions that come out of reading a piece often help an author bring a whole new dimension to the story.Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-71936557245797150822011-06-22T14:22:24.339+01:002011-06-22T14:22:24.339+01:00Read the article Candy, I love Pixars approach, I ...Read the article Candy, I love Pixars approach, I watch a lot of their DVD extra's where they discuss their approach. I think I was very encouraged to hear how much goes in the bin because my bin is always full.<br />I first did anonymous crits on a Cornerstones course. It was excellent, one piece was critiqued for a specific problem in each session and the author could own up a the end if they wanted to. Most did.<br />So, we're definitely recommending not speaking until the end then Nick and Jo.Maureen Lynashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855138050232488108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-31987646020254867332011-06-22T12:59:57.613+01:002011-06-22T12:59:57.613+01:00It has to be said too - I'm sure Nick will agr...It has to be said too - I'm sure Nick will agree - it got much better after Amy Greenfield-Butler persuaded us to ban the person who's work is being discussed from talking until everyone has finished delivering their feedback!Jo Wytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01941417444551495613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-3190468066604467942011-06-22T12:15:53.976+01:002011-06-22T12:15:53.976+01:00Addy's right - it is very dependent on the peo...Addy's right - it is very dependent on the people involved. As a critique leader you need to have a mix of strategies and be prepared to try something else if a particular group isn't working.<br /><br />As Jo points out, our Oxford SCBWI group can be a little "direct" at times. But it's also such a chatty friendly group that the criticism is softened that way, because we know it isn't personal. Whereas I have been in other critique situations that have got very personal at times and that's not helpful to anyone.Nick Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571077124165351007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-53812136748488641552011-06-22T07:23:32.135+01:002011-06-22T07:23:32.135+01:00Very interesting! It's so dependent on the gro...Very interesting! It's so dependent on the group isn't it? I'm definitely going to try anonymous crit altho our Lincoln group know each other so well it may not work. I perosnally couldn't cope with brutality but the incisive no-time-for-softening-approach of an editor is something I appreciate.<br />Thanks, Maureen!Addy Farmerhttp://www.addyfarmer.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-14209998418638588152011-06-21T23:19:48.985+01:002011-06-21T23:19:48.985+01:00You're right of course Candy - and Maureen too...You're right of course Candy - and Maureen too. The first crit group I joined was bread-heavy, but it was the perfect way to get into sharing work and receiving criticism. We're all just so British aren't we, with our polite criticism?! Great post Maureen - you've really got me thinking! It's really interesting the different ways people deal with this stuff.Jo Wytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01941417444551495613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-35099247445287991332011-06-21T22:56:43.277+01:002011-06-21T22:56:43.277+01:00This is a wonderful post! Great points!This is a wonderful post! Great points!Summer Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08122694893668693244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-58871116171897175842011-06-21T21:22:47.089+01:002011-06-21T21:22:47.089+01:00I must admit that I have bother with the bread and...I must admit that I have bother with the bread and would rather go straight for the filling. Maybe it depends on the stage you're at though. I think I can sift out the objective from the subjective. And I am so critical of my own stuff that I don't think anyone could be even more critical than I am. <br />Lovely moment in Middlesbrough when someone ripped a book to shreds and then said something like, 'I can't believe I'm rubbishing my own book!' We all thought he'd achieved the right to call himself an author for being so brutally honest with himself and us.Maureen Lynashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855138050232488108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-28195675451742828832011-06-21T17:38:41.374+01:002011-06-21T17:38:41.374+01:00But there's a lot of trust involved too. If yo...But there's a lot of trust involved too. If you didn't trust your group, Jo, or respect that they know what they're talking about it might be difficult to receive criticism.Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-18103391068013212112011-06-21T17:37:24.699+01:002011-06-21T17:37:24.699+01:00Here's a great quote from that article: "...Here's a great quote from that article: "You have to honor failure because failure is just the negative space around success ... Some art is stronger than others, and to make it together - and make it astoundingly good - you've got to recognize the difference."Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-24845861517827868662011-06-21T17:35:51.989+01:002011-06-21T17:35:51.989+01:00In one session with the SCBWI Oxford group in the ...In one session with the SCBWI Oxford group in the past, everyone was completely brutal about one of my chapters, and it was one of the best sessions I've ever had with them! No critique sandwich bothered with - it just doesn't seem necessary if you've got a good group of people who trust each other's opinions. I know that when they think my stuff's good they're just as forthcoming. I much prefer it that way - saves me from bothering to separate congeniality from truth. That way, when I get home, I know exactly what I need to work on. Critique groups are fantastic for that!!Jo Wytonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01941417444551495613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-701894736280253278.post-79880027204422156882011-06-21T17:25:27.218+01:002011-06-21T17:25:27.218+01:00I know that a 'critique sandwich' is recom...I know that a 'critique sandwich' is recommended - criticism sandwiched in between praise. but sometimes it feels like time wasted. at pixar (makers of Toy Story) they do a thing called <b>plus-ing</b> - where they don't bother with sweetening the criticism. Instead their attitude critique is that it is something that ADDS to all the good things about the script. I think it's mentioned in this <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.06/pixar.html" rel="nofollow">great piece in Wired about <b>Brad Bird</b></a>, the writer and director of The Incredibles.Candy Gourlayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07802791643303335762noreply@blogger.com